Friday, October 10, 2008

Some sample true believer responses to the “Ring of Power” debunking

Thanks for the overwhelmingly positive responses to the “Ring of Power” bit, everybody – now let’s hear from the other side. Without commentary – as, for most of us, the profoundly paranoid and racist Facebook troller using the pseudonym “Bruce Lee needs no introduction – and as the lunatic from the second conversation’s beliefs are so clearly dissonant with what he ends up professing he believes in addition to the sorts of hysteria presented in “Ring of Power,” I will simply post the conversations for your enjoyment – atrocious spelling and overt racism and all. About halfway down each conversation you can see me starting to play psychologist because I’m literally trying to find out of these people are insane.

The views of the respondents presented here do not represent the views of the authors of this Blog.

Note that in both cases, after cussing me out extensively both of these people end up blocking the thread.


Bruce Lee
October 5 at 8:58pm
The Truth is the truth and you are doing a shitty job at covering it up
You and your Zionist friends will rot in hell

October 5 at 9:10pm
I didn't, but I suspect that whichever of that group's admins did was simply tired of your overt bigotry and the fact that your entire belief system was refuted, yet you refused to engage the facts in any way.

I'd like you to consider the fact that every 9/11 denying, anti-Semitic, anti-Western civilization crony of yours skulked out of our group after you entered. You evidently embarrassed all of them. You're an open racist, a terrible arguer, and a desperate, effete child craving attention from whoever will give it to you. On some fundamental level it is clear that you have weakened your own little cargo cult with your sheer lunacy and the ease with which you were completely refuted.

Enjoy! :D

Bruce Lee
October 7 at 2:45am
Ya right you didn't.

I was exposing you Zionists and you got all pissy cause you worked so hard to try and steer my thoughts on Ring Of Power and you clearly didn't haha

That group was a waist of time anyway.

It Holds me back when i could be exposing the (EXPOSING THE ZIONIST INVOLVEMENT IN 9/11)
Never forget the Zionists Control a lot, including all the Main Media's , Banks , etc in America, including the WTC's that got attacked. Half the World Believes Zionists were behind 9/11.

I know Isaac is a Zionist and i am pretty sure you and your buddies are also.

That Ring Of Power is mostly all truth man from what me and many others think.

You better turn your ways around John

Good Luck Lier

John Ray
October 7 at 10:03am
Congratulations on basically admitting that your entire life philosophy has been refuted. Once again, address the facts, or slink away in shame like the rest of your fellow cultists have.

I honestly don't see the appeal of this movie. As I proved, it deliberately lied to you on literally hundreds of occasions throughout. It insults your intelligence and relies wholly on deceit to push its agenda. Under any other circumstances, were you not so dogmatically inclined, you wouldn't defend this tripe with an ounce of your breath.

And no, I didn't ban you from that group - which has, of course, more than one admin and several officers. Not too difficult to figure out there.

And once again, you're only embarrassing yourself and your fellow cultists with your continued insistence that anyone and everyone who disagrees with you is a "Zionist," which is completely fraudulent. I know you're paranoid and delusional, but now you're just making yourself look, well, dumb. Grow up, and wake up. Without wanting to state the obvious, you're a credulous dupe who believes anything and everything said by anyone who even remotely agrees with you, it appears. Just something to think about. I have given you the facts and you have openly decided to reject the truth in favor of your faith. Good luck to you.


Bruce Lee
October 7 at 2:18pm
Dude get a life man

I believe the truth and you believe the original 9/11 commission report haha.

That report has so many lies and you believe them clearly which means you are among some of the biggest idiots on earth

peace out

John Ray
October 7 at 7:19pm
That's not quite an argument, and you haven't yet been able to provide a single argument to my refutation of Ring of Power, so yes, "peace out" indeed.

Bruce Lee
October 7 at 7:26pm
Report Message

I am not here to ague with you and waist my time with your lies John

Wake up you Zionist

John Ray
October 7 at 7:28pm

Okay, so trying to convince me that all of history is a vast, bizarre, paranoid conspiracy against a mountain of evidence and facts is not "arguing." Right. That would explain many of your habits. Look man, that video is deliberately fraudulent on many occasions and I'm trying to help people like you wake up to that fact. The people who made that Internet vid are simply not honest. Why doesn't that bother you?

Bruce Lee
October 7 at 7:38pm

haha you are soooo brainwashed.

Your evidence lies in the original 9/11 commission report done by Zionists and spouted through their Zionist owned medias.

Any sane person that is caught in the middle, that investigates all this would believe the Zionist involvement before your lies and a Muslim involvement.

Zionists gained everything and nobody can deny that

John Ray
October 7 at 7:40pm

See, telling me that the facts are "brainwashed" (a)isn't an argument and (b)makes you sound incredibly paranoid - as if I didn't know that already.

The facts that I believe can be tested and replicated - as they were, in the case of the NIST models that were carefully assembled by hundreds of independent experts across the public, private, and academic spheres.

Oh, nice cui bono fallacy. It usually helps if its at least true.

Bruce Lee
October 7 at 7:44pm

John we clearly do not see eye to eye so lets leave it at that.

I am the good guy and you are the Zionist supporter bad guy

Bruce Lee
October 7 at 7:44pm


Bruce Lee
October 7 at 7:44pm

don't bother replying

John Ray
October 7 at 7:46pm

Congratulations, you just made yourself a poster child of irrationality, gullibility, and refusal to look at the evidence. You've been lied to and duped by people who want to take advantage of you, and you bought it, hook, line, and sinker. Buh bye.

Bruce Lee
October 7 at 7:59pm

Noooooo you are the one that bought the Zionist lies dip shit.

I know you are a Zionist John. The evidence in all your posts is sooo clear.

You are not Gods chosen people

You Zionists are the scum of the Earth and God will punish you all for your crimes against humanity and the Earth

Bruce Lee
October 7 at 8:00pm

Just get lost

I do not care to hear your lies no more

John Ray
October 7 at 8:03pm

See, now that's the kind of fraud that people spew that makes them just get laughed at. I just gave you a fifty-page document proving that Ring of Power is a deliberate fraud by its makers, who openly insult and lie to you to push their personal agenda. You're a willing dupe, and frankly, that's just shameful.

Bruce Lee
October 7 at 8:09pm

You didn't prove nothing man. I am clearly not gullible like you think.

I do not care if your Zionist friends laugh at me. They are not my friends, they are my enemies clearly if they support lies and evil

Since i posted all the Zionist stuff in your pathetic group 6 people messaged me saying basically they believe Zionists were involved in 9/11 and thanking me for saying the truth. Not many people like you guys i hope you know that.

Bruce Lee
October 7 at 8:10pm

haha good stuff
Between You and Aken Aton

Aken Aton
Add as Friend
Today at 11:18am
Report Message
Seems to me like you are starting to understand the scope of this thing. Soon you will eliminate the word Zionist when you realize this problem has been going on long before that movement was invented. If you haven't read any quotes from the Talmud, you should do so.
[editor’s note: Not sure what the above is doing here:]

Bruce Lee
October 7 at 8:10pm

Above Example

Bruce Lee
October 7 at 8:11pm

You lose i WIN

Bruce Lee
October 7 at 8:11pm


John Ray
October 7 at 8:11pm

You just openly admitted that you buy hook, line and sinker something that is essentially six hours of complete fraud. Then you actively dodge any sort of argument and basically admit that your faith can't be defended against the truth. So far, everything you blindly obey without question and with utter servility has been shown to have absolutely nothing to do with "truth."

Bruce Lee
October 7 at 8:16pm
Report Message

bla bla bla bla

Give up

You can not beat the truth

It is now spreading like wild fire

stop harassing me with your lies please

all i see now is bla bla bla

you lost really bad John

John Ray
October 7 at 8:20pm

How is anything I have said a lie?

Think about why you are both unwilling and unable to answer that question. I hope you'll think about who has convinced you to write and think the way you do, and why. And what level of reasoning goes into it. You know in your heart that the truth is more important than the blind obedience pushed by the people you have willfully adopted faith in because they've told you to.

Also try to think about why you refuse to read contravening information. Think about who has told you not to listen to truth, and why. Think about what it used to be like, when you actually listened to facts and held your own opinions rather than the ones forced on you by those who you wanted to be like. Just try.

Bruce Lee
October 8 at 4:18am


I see the wall is back up haha

Funny how you attack me when i can't defend myself cause i am kicked out of the group cause i busted you Zionist fucks.

You are a worm and thats all you will ever be.

You will get yours one day when i hope you Zionist puke ;)

John Ray
October 8 at 5:47pm

Just to be clear, you attacked me, then messaged me privately just to attack me. And whoever kicked you out is probably as fed up with your overt bigotry as I am.

Like I said, please, try to think for yourself and get all the sides of the issue. Try to think about why you can't support the arguments you've been trained to support in a 1-on-1 setting, and try to remember who it is that trained you to bellow "ZIONIST!" when it becomes clear that the beliefs you're being told to have become indefensible. Try to think back to when you still thought independently, not how the anti-truth crowd taught you how to think, to treat the whole world as your enemy, which is pitiful and sad. Just try to get the facts. Please.

Bruce Lee
October 8 at 7:03pm

Omg you are pathetic

I am showing facts

Not lies like you spread like the original 9/11 commission report or reports done by Zionists spouted all over their corrupt media outlets

Man you can not shake me with your long ass posts full of lies.

I see right through them and your Zionist friends in that group

Bruce Lee
October 8 at 7:08pm

Off to a Different topic cause i clearly exposed your lies and beat your pathetic disinformation game.

What do you think about the VENUS PROJECT?

Jacque Fresco is a great man that you should look up to.

Who do you look up to anyway besides the leaders of the Zionist Mafia?

John Ray
October 8 at 7:15pm

No, you're trying to run away again. You're staying on this topic because I think you're finally starting to realize that you've just been saying what you're trained to say. Do you realize that you haven't made one single factual argument yet? Do you seriously think that bellowing "ZIONIST" is a factual argument? Are you so far gone? What have I said that is a "lie?" According to what evidence? Do you know what evidence is?

There might still be something of an independent, rational mind in there. Try to think back to when evidence still mattered to you. Look past what you've been commanded to say and pressured into believing by conspiracy theorists. Think about facts, think about the real world. I've proved to you that the people who are trying to take away your sense of reality deliberately lied to you and that they want you to just be their unthinking dupe. Break through the propaganda wall. You know perfectly well the vast flaws in their thinking; you've just been obedient enough to their convenient mindset to not do anything about it. Come on. You can do it.

Bruce Lee
October 8 at 7:35pm

lol you are screwed up man.

I am not running from shit. I am just sick of you lying on that topic so i wanted to switch it up to see if you are in favor of the Venus Project to change the whole system for the better of all or to see if your in favor of your Zionist elites pals and the Bilderberg Group etc New World Order plans for us and OUR world.

[Editor’s note: This looks an awful lot like how Scientology got started]

John Ray
October 8 at 8:30pm

You're dodging. Explain to me how, where, and when I lied; specifically, and according to what evidence, did I do so? See? You have absolutely nothing backing up what you've been trained to believe. You're just engaging in knee-jerk rejection of facts because you've spent so long being trained not to listen to reality. You know this as well as I. You've noticed as well as I that you have completely failed to make any argument of any kind. Come on. Explain to yourself why this is so.

Bruce Lee
October 9 at 3:06am

No now you are dodging

John everything i throw at you, all you do is deny it.

I know it is possible to deny some things but you deny everything lol.

You need a good slap in the head man for the way you go around and do what you do. Same goes for those few Zionist losers in that group.

I caught onto you fools and now others see it. To bad you censored me and some of my posts in that group. Just shows who won :). That group is DONE. It was only a matter of time johnny Zionist Ray.

What sealed it was when i researched Zionist Jew names and found out a couple popular Zionist names were the main people spouting off a bunch of shit . That Zionist Isaac in the group was agreeing with everything you said before he even read it. His name was on that Zionist list i pulled off of google you fool and you can not deny that.

When you wrote that pathetic Ring Of Power debunking and he comments saying he agrees with you then he said he never read it all that was a total give away.

You can not trick me John i know you guys too good now to trust anything you say.

You better wake up John

Karma is a bitch

John Ray
October 9 at 10:38am

You've dodged the same challenge I've issued every time: how, when, and where has anything I've said been inaccurate? According to what evidence?

Do you see why you can't answer these questions? "Ring of Power" is indefensible - it's a fraud from top to bottom, as I proved. Think to yourself about why you can't answer these questions - and what mental processes you've trained yourself to have so that you can simply pretend that they don't need to be answered. Think about why you pretend to yourself that everything is alright, that there's no evidence out there, that everything is the kind of paranoid fantasy you obediently believe in because some frauds in an Internet video told you to.

I have shot down the "Zionists control history" hypothesis of "Ring of Power" completely and utterly... and you pretend that nothing happened. You have reached a depth of mental servitude that is tragic and terrifying. The beliefs that you have are based on complete fraud, as I proved - yet you do nothing to challenge your own beliefs.

And by the way, rattling off a list of "Jewish-sounding" last names is not "research."

How, when, and where has anything I've said been inaccurate? According to what evidence?

[Respondent blocks author at this point]
[Editor’s note: The first half of this conversation is no longer available. It took place on this bizarre Facebook group.]
Chris Horlacher
October 9 at 10:25pm
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Banning comments? tsk tsk, I thought free speech was treasured by Americans. Here is your proof, make the effort.

John Ray
October 9 at 10:29pm

Banning comments? I don't have authority to do that on any group where I posted my refutation of Ring of Power and sections of Zeitgeist. Are your comments not allowed on that group? Blame the conspiracy theorists, I guess.

And like I said, I'm not amused by the attempted use of jargon to beef up a failed argument. And, like I already said, I took at look at that pamphlet so you're spinning a broken record.

Address my challenges: explain, in your own words, where, when, and why you think the Fed prints money. Also, explain why you think that disallowing asset spending will not reduce investment from asset spending.

Chris Horlacher
October 9 at 10:59pm
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Why are you afraid of reading through the Federal Reserves own manual on how they make money??? They explain it to you exactly as how I would.

Or are you are a hopeless cause?

John Ray
October 9 at 11:10pm

I just told you that I have. This itself proves the fundamental incoherence of your argument because it demonstrates where and when the Fed prints new money - in response to "the uneving timing of credit demands," etc. - while the sort of pseudotheory you've got going requires there to be a bloat of hard money in the system at all times, which is demonstrably false. And of course this .pdf also points out that banks have lagged reserve banking, not pure "fractional reserve banking," per Fed regulations. You still haven't accounted for the fact that there is no demonstrable relationship between the rate of inflation and the money supply, and you're still running and ducking from having to dare put the facts into your own words.

You're the third conspiracy theorist today to regurgitate the same bunk you've trained yourself to believe to me - and, like clockwork, when pressed to demonstrate a causal mechanism, you simply pretend that nothing happened, that "I'm" the one ducking out of this argument, when all I'm doing is trying to get you to actually have one, because you're not listening to me and it doesn't even appear that you're reading what you write.

That's why I'm challenging you to explain federal monetary policy in your own words: to point out that You Can Not Do It. You haven't the foggiest idea, so you slap out a 40-page .pdf argument, load up your posts with the fallacious use of jargon, and hope that nobody knows any better. As with every other dime-a-dozen, The-Fed-Causes-All-The-World's-Problems wannabe-theorists out there, you can scarcely even spit out a Cliff's Notes version of the Mises Institute's homepage, much less walk any sort of walk. You don't know the underlying principles and you don't know the causal mechanisms, and you're betting on the ol' baffling with BS tactic and it's fallen through every time.

Once again I've been eating this sort of terrible argumentation for breakfast from people who have absolutely no idea what their text-walls are saying, so please, if you aren't going to even pretend you can make an argument, stop wasting my time, there's a line behind you.

Chris Horlacher
October 9 at 11:16pm
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You honestly don't think that the SUPPLY of currency has ANY effect on its value in a marketplace???

Are you delusional?

This is the only thing you're hiding behind!!! Talk about a thin argument!

You ARE a lost cause.

Apparently you're the pseudo-economist here. You haven't even taken first year economics.

John Ray
October 9 at 11:22pm

Number of times you have dodged having to make an argument that a high schooler could make: 7, counting comments on posted items.

As soon as you understand where, when, and why the Fed prints money - and right now it is transparently obvious that you don't - you will understand why the fact that the Fed prints money as it does doesn't make it a significant contributor to inflation. In fact, given the graphs I used earlier to refute your entire worldview, it doesn't appear that there's a significant relationship, but I can run the regression analysis if you want.

Once again,
Number of times you have dodged having to make an argument that a high schooler could make: 7, counting comments on posted items.

Chris Horlacher
October 9 at 11:29pm
Report Message

I think this is a little more age appropriate for you:

Rising prices are a SYMPTOM of inflation, NOT THE CAUSE.

Just because you call it 'money' doesn't mean that it's immune to the effects of supply and demand.

How can you not even know the most fundamental concept to economics?

Answer that. And then try explaining to me why 'money' is immune to it.

John Ray
October 9 at 11:34pm

Number of times you have dodged having to make an argument that a high schooler could make: 8, counting comments on posted items.

When, where, and why, in your own words, does the Fed print money?

Well twenty-three skiddoo, now you're the third conspiracy theorist to message me with *that exact same link today!*

When, where, and why, in your own words, does the Fed print money?

You don't even seem to realize that sliding up and down the supply or demand curve tends to slow or stop once you've reached an equilibrium point, but then again it is transparently obvious that you haven't the foggiest what you're tryign to talk about in any way. Answer my simple challenge or stop wasting my time.

Once again,
Number of times you have dodged having to make an argument that a high schooler could make: 8, counting comments on posted items.

When, where, and why, in your own words, does the Fed print money?

Answer my simple challenge, or stop wasting my time.

Answer my simple challenge, or stop wasting my time.

Copy and paste the above two lines into your next hysterically ignorant post that I will refute in two minutes with ease once again so that I know you understand. I don't even think you're all there at this point. Do you understand what I mean when I use words like, "answer?" Do you realize that to "answer" generally involves a coherent response of some kind?

Once again,
Number of times you have dodged having to make an argument that a high schooler could make: 8, counting comments on posted items.

When, where, and why, in your own words, does the Fed print money?

Chris Horlacher
Today at 11:25am
Report Message

"When, where, and why, in your own words, does the Fed print money?"

Banks accept promissory notes in exchange for credits to the borrower's accounts. This isn't a hard thing to understand. It's explained in vivid detail in the manual I sent you, but you're either funtionally illiterate, or didn't read it. Money creation is simply an accounting fraud, take it from an accountant. I know BS when I see it.

Either way I'm sick of your strawmen and laziness.

Number of times you've refused to look at evidence = 8 times and counting. Being dense isn't an argument.

This isn't a conspiracy, this is basic double entry bookkeeping so stop using bullshit as a defense. I guess basic accounting isn't part of the curriculum at Carnegie-Mellon.

So you can keep refusing to look at the evidence, while continually asking for evidence. But that just makes you look insane and quite frankly dumb as a post.
[Would have responded if not for respondent blocking author.]


Nameless said...

Wow... your skill at baiting people into un-winnable arguments is truly top-notch. I respect that on principle, but using it *here* is quite dishonorable.

Yours is a skill of deception.

Your "fifty page refute" is nothing more than baseless claims, accusations, and flat-out name-calling.

Where are your sources? Where are your footnotes? Where is the proof that ANYTHING you claim is true? Where is the proof that anything you've refuted ISN'T true? Just because you say so, doesn't qualify as "proof."

It's pretty easy to say "proof or it didn't happen" isn't it? I would say so, you just filled 50 pages of the same thing.

The problem here, is that the ENTIRE debate, is very subjective. No "normal" person is going to be able to prove the entire thing, either way. The entirety of your argument and refutation, is nothing more than you repeatedly calling people "stupid" and "insane" and "fraudulent." The only thing you've proven, is that you're willing to fill 50 pages of "nuh-uh!" and "you're stupid if you think [xxxxxx]!"

And while people who "get it" will be infuriated by your hubris, they will likely fall straight into your trap, and try to argue through your contrived, manipulative, staged arguments.

My advice to your next opponent:

Don't waste time arguing with insults and strawmen. Time is precious, it's all some people have.

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